UK education better than Australia?

[Rachiegarlo]

ok well that makes it simple then, the government can just herd all those who don't fit the "stable ultra-middle class society" tag onto an island somewhere off shore so their apparently underperforming offspring can't be counted in future research figures. . I also disagree with the fact that new facilities and massive funding will lift performance substantially, unless the funding is for teachers, who have not become disillusioned with all the chopping/changing curriculums, lack of respect from children/families, mountains of paperwork, their role as social workers/ whipping boys and stupid reporting systems.

[Anne B]

ok well that makes it simple then, the government can just herd all those who don't fit the "stable ultra-middle class society" tag onto an island somewhere off shore so their apparently underperforming offspring can't be counted in future research figures. . I also disagree with the fact that new facilities and massive funding will lift performance substantially, unless the funding is for teachers, who have not become disillusioned with all the chopping/changing curriculums, lack of respect from children/families, mountains of paperwork, their role as social workers/ whipping boys and stupid reporting systems.

 

I think the author's comments about the ACT were slightly 'tongue in cheek'.

 

I honestly haven't got a campaign against Australian education, but this report got a lot of publicity on TV yesterday, and coming so soon after the last survey I though it deserved to be included on this thread. I also started this thread because I get fed up with people moaning about how bad the UK is all the time and how great it is here.

 

My son is starting high school next year and I have been very impressed so far with the school and the Head - we will have to wait and see if it lives up to expectations. I have been disappointed though with my children's primary school, although it has many good points. Some of the teachers just don't seem to have the same level of commitment as those at their school in England (class sizes are the same) - it's all a lot more casual. Long service leave taken mid-term, endless relief teachers, homework not marked for weeks etc. My son's teacher, who seems really nice, has got him mixed up with another child (calling him the wrong name etc) all year! Even I got addressed as Mrs X (the other boy's surname) when I was there for a presentation my son was making! My son is even questioning whether he has the right marks in his school report!!!

Edited December 13, 2012 by Anne B

[minty]

It's not better or worse just different. Less pressure at a younger age and a bit more as they get older. More relaxed but both still turn out the same professions.

 

Isn't that why were here for something a bit different ? That means accepting the differences as a package.

 

If we don't like state schools here we have a choice to take the more affordable then the UK private schools or at worse go back to the UK.

[sduffy]

Not always that easy,some cant afford even the cheaper private schools and once you are here finances, or personal circumstance dont always allow a return to the UK.Education in the economic climate today is so crucial.

 

I do generally believe that education standards here are not equivalent to the uk,but then i also believe that Uk has become too exam orientated.

 

At the end of the day wherever you are a lot is dependant on the individual child.

 

I do consider that parents of younger children who have been educated in the uk will find it much more relaxed here,but dont think in the earlier years it is a bad thing,we used to be quite stressed ourselves with the volume of work that our daughter brought home in primary school.it was frankly ridiculous.

 

 

My daughter returned to England at the start of Yr 10 and had missed quite a bit of relevant work in Yr 9,yet in her GCSEs she attained 10 GCSEs at mainly As and a couple of Bs,so dont think education is that bad here,though she has always gone to a catholic private school whilst in Adelaide.

 

My daughter loves school here,the children seem so much more friendly and happy,when we ping ponged back to the Uk she hated her school life there and couldnt wait to come back to Adelaide.

 

I agree with Diane in yrs 11 and 12 the pace really seems to pick up.

 

Sue

[zebedee]

I'm enjoying most of the differences with our new lives here in Oz, but when my children come home from school and tell me they spent the afternoon watching a film and had to make the teachers cups of coffee, it makes me want to go to the school and give the teachers a big kick up their butts. That's not different or laid back, that's just can't be bothered and I'm not just talking about the last week of term either. So jury is out on education system until next year and we'll see how that goes.

Edited February 21, 2013 by zebedee

[Misplaced]

I'm enjoying most of the differences with our new lives here in Oz, but when my children come from home school and tell me they spent the afternoon watching a film and had to make the teachers cups of coffee, it makes me want to go to the school and give the teachers a big kick up their butts. That's not different or laid back, that's just can't be bothered and I'm not just talking about the last week of term either. So jury is out on education system until next year and we'll see how that goes.

 

Which school?

[candylis]

I conpleted year 12 in 2011 and had started here in year 9 and now i'm in my second year of uni. Studying education. As far as which is better its a bit unfair. In england we where pushed and always tested but we had a rather narrow education. In aus i've found the subjects are broader health pe photography japanese metal work tourism the list goes on and its far more focoused and a broad range while promoting activities and learning through experiments. So its hard to compare systems. After uni im starting to think the Australian system is better and the english model has to be updated to be more student centered. But australia does lack the stricter social side of schools with homework and rules

 

Plus the point mentioned above about secret voting i reckon is the best invention. Its hard to imagine democracys without one

[snifter]

I conpleted year 12 in 2011 and had started here in year 9 and now i'm in my second year of uni. Studying education. As far as which is better its a bit unfair. In england we where pushed and always tested but we had a rather narrow education. In aus i've found the subjects are broader health pe photography japanese metal work tourism the list goes on and its far more focoused and a broad range while promoting activities and learning through experiments. So its hard to compare systems. After uni im starting to think the Australian system is better and the english model has to be updated to be more student centered. But australia does lack the stricter social side of schools with homework and rules

 

Plus the point mentioned above about secret voting i reckon is the best invention. Its hard to imagine democracys without one

 

Thank you for this.

 

Its good to hear from someone who has experience at a personal level of both the UK and Aus system. And who isn't a parent. It was so long ago I was at school it doesn't compare to today's schooling.

 

I think they are both good. My husband is an Aussie and he attended a good school in Adelaide and went to Adelaide uni and got his degree. Certainly didn't hinder him when he moved to the UK as he has been working constantly in good jobs since arriving in the UK 7 years ago. The UK employers didn't pass him over based on where he gained his education. They looked at his skills, his degree (to be honest his first job here was probably the only time his degree has been relavent or important, since then its been skill and experience based), the person he is and more and hired him because he was good to do the job.

 

I am hearing the Aus model of education is changing somewhat, at least at primary level and is becoming more standardised and teachers have less freedom to plan their own programmes but are following a curriculum more now.

[zebedee]

Still not overly impressed yet - daughter in year 7 is building a model car at school - partly due to the Clipsal 500 trip they are going on (which is pretty cool) - the idea is that they are going to race them down a hill. I asked her what learning the teacher is tying up with the designs, is it a little bit of physics or maths, you know, simple principles, nothing heavy. Nope, nothing - literally just building the models for fun. Just seems like there are wasted opportunities in the education system in my mind.

[Anne B]

As an update to this, a new school year has started and my daughter's new teacher seems so much better than the last 2. I really think the teacher makes so much difference, he is new to the school, has been teaching in deprived socio-economic areas previously and really appreciates being at this current school. He has lots of enthusiasm and good ideas, whereas my kids have had 3 teachers between them who had been at the same school for over 15 years, were incredibly jaded, couldn't even bother organising school trips, had no enthusiasm and gave the impression they were just going through the motions (they are still at the school unfortunately). There seems to be a lot of these type of teachers in the Australian state school system.

 

My son has started High school and so far I have been impressed with the discipline, which seems stricter than primary school - we will have to wait and see with the school work, it's still early days.

[Lazy Cow]

Still not overly impressed yet - daughter in year 7 is building a model car at school - partly due to the Clipsal 500 trip they are going on (which is pretty cool) - the idea is that they are going to race them down a hill. I asked her what learning the teacher is tying up with the designs, is it a little bit of physics or maths, you know, simple principles, nothing heavy. Nope, nothing - literally just building the models for fun.

 

Personally, I would ask the teacher rather than the child. Sometimes - and this is only my opinion - it seems that kids are almost unaware of what they are learning because it can be a relaxed environment where they might be concentrating on what they are doing rather than what they are learning. I mean, kids like making stuff and whilst the teacher may be tying the lesson in to the Clipsal, the kids are probably learning without realising it, if that makes sense? Like a drip; you don't notice the drip, only when the bucket suddenly looks full!

 

Kids build on their knowledge year by year and sometimes learning seems a bit like a wave; they revisit topics each year, and whilst it might seem as though they are repeating information, each time they add a bit more, go a bit further. And that seems pretty good to me although if you ask the kids they would probably just say, "But we did this last year!"

 

LC

Edited February 21, 2013 by Lazy Cow
Took out the list of what they might be learning because you obviously recognised that!

[zebedee]

Personally, I would ask the teacher rather than the child. Sometimes - and this is only my opinion - it seems that kids are almost unaware of what they are learning because it can be a relaxed environment where they might be concentrating on what they are doing rather than what they are learning. I mean, kids

like making stuff and while the teacher may be tying the lesson in to the Clipsal, the kids' car building also teaches them forces (pushes and pulls), potential, kinetic energy etc, maths, problem-solving, design, communication, etc and might be tied in with the environment, fossil fuels etc.

 

Kids build on their knowledge year by year and sometimes learning seems a bit like a wave; they revisit topics each year, and whilst it might seem as though they are repeating information, each time they add a bit more, go a bit further. And that seems pretty good to me although if you ask the kids they would probably just say, "But we did this last year!"

 

LC

 

Maybe, and we are trying to keep an open mind but Anne B's comments echo our early experience so far. We are willing to give it a fair go though and will also speak to the teachers in due course. I'd love to know that what they were learning was being tied into concepts, especially environmental ones.

 

@Anne - which high school out of interest? We are just down from you in Lockleys...

[Rachiegarlo]

Building models for fun actually is extending a child's experiences in design, problem solving , planning, working in a team, communication, mathematical process, and through the reflective discussion after it is all finished . One "fun" project probably has been planned out according to the curriculum guidelines set out by the SA teacher's bible, the SACSA framework with all its many dotpoints. There is very little that children do that has no planned learning component or added value.

[zebedee]

Yes, if their is discussion around the different designs, how those designs change the performance, etc. An 11 year old just sticking stuff together is not fulfilling the learning potential of the activity unless the topics are being explored in discussion. That's the point I am getting across - I've yet to see that kind of evidence, but I concur with earlier comments that our daughter might not be giving me the complete picture and it's early days. In my opinion, much of the learning comes from the why discussions.

[Guest brianlynnette]

hi our kids go to west lakes shore and i also agree with ANNE B when our kids started in june the olympics started soon after and the 3 kids, 1 each in kindy, reception and yr 6 were all coming home telling us theyd been watching the olympics, dont know if its because to me the aussiesseem more patriotic than us brits?? after all what school in uk learns the kids the national anthem??

[Rachiegarlo]

This would come under cultural context similar to when class stops for the Melbourne Cup allowing children some self directed development. . Sorry if I seem flippant but at the other end of educating children, I would say don't sweat the small stuff, education is lifelong and the parts that really define you as an adult come from experiences and doing rather than theorising. Not every person needs to externalise their learning, children are quite good at seeing a larger scope than credited for but it could be too that this teacher is of the burnt out needing to retire but cant afford it type. Maybe a chat to the teacher stating that this type of curriculum is foreign to you as you are new to this country and you are a bit worried about how it all relates. Having seen the pushy parent brigade work the teacher to the ground even as early as acquaintance night I have learned it is far easier to use this approach than join the PPB and often you get the result you are seeking.

[DougM]

Only just read this thread as I'm to old to go to school. I'm not, however, too old to learn. I started school when the main emphasis was on the 3 R's. Reading, Riting and Rithmatic. That was in the 40's through to the late 50's. When my kids went to school, so called New Maths' came on the scene and I was unable to help them as it might just as well been French (something I wish I had learnt) Over the years, new ideas on how to teach children have been tried, sometimes at a cost to the children. Remember open class rooms. Even had that here and our foster children suffered through constant distractions.

 

We all have our idea of what a 'good school' is and we will all be disappointed in some aspect or other. The biggest influence on your children will always be you. Kids need your support, help and encouragement. With the right input from yourselves, your kids will get the 'want to learn' aspiration and will make a good job of whatever is to hand. Even from the lowest rated schools, kids will go on to university.

 

Re making models. remember the saying "a picture paints a thousand words", well hands on experience leads to insights that would normally have lain dormant for many, many years. I've been thinking about getting a school to build one of my aircraft designs. It's been done before here in Australia. I wonder how many of the participating kids went on to be pilots, air stewards, aeronautic engineers etc etc.

[Misplaced]

Only just read this thread as I'm to old to go to school. I'm not, however, too old to learn. I started school when the main emphasis was on the 3 R's. Reading, Riting and Rithmatic. That was in the 40's through to the late 50's. When my kids went to school, so called New Maths' came on the scene and I was unable to help them as it might just as well been French (something I wish I had learnt) Over the years, new ideas on how to teach children have been tried, sometimes at a cost to the children. Remember open class rooms. Even had that here and our foster children suffered through constant distractions.

 

We all have our idea of what a 'good school' is and we will all be disappointed in some aspect or other. The biggest influence on your children will always be you. Kids need your support, help and encouragement. With the right input from yourselves, your kids will get the 'want to learn' aspiration and will make a good job of whatever is to hand. Even from the lowest rated schools, kids will go on to university.

 

Re making models. remember the saying "a picture paints a thousand words", well hands on experience leads to insights that would normally have lain dormant for many, many years. I've been thinking about getting a school to build one of my aircraft designs. It's been done before here in Australia. I wonder how many of the participating kids went on to be pilots, air stewards, aeronautic engineers etc etc.

 

Wisdom comes with age....................I was taught in the Open Unit at Christies Beach Primary School for 3 years and to be honest I didn't really notice a problem with distractions or noise.

[DougM]

Wisdom comes with age....................I was taught in the Open Unit at Christies Beach Primary School for 3 years and to be honest I didn't really notice a problem with distractions or noise.

 

Are you saying I'm old at 71. Only in my body. The fact that my brain fails to work sometimes is incidental.

[zebedee]

Feel like a thread hi-jacker now, as it was Anne's original post, but thanks for the comments - can't disagree with the wise words and I hope I'm being open-minded to everything Australian. Of course building models, hands on play, supportive parents are good things - I do agree and I appreciate that all teachers have different styles. I'm just wary of that apathetic teaching that can creep in, both here and in the UK - and I concur that by getting involved, going to parent teacher meetings, etc, should help me make more of an informed opinion of the school and the style.

[Scousemouse]

Interesting debate!

With 2 kids still at school (yr 12 and 10) i would like to add........

My daughter now attends ASMS at Flinders uni, a school she sought out because the "scattergun" approach was unsettling and unhelpful. Now specialising in her chosen line, she is much more content. Even the hour journey doesnt seem to bother her........

My son , now in year 12 finds that the concentrated effort is more beneficial, and his subjects are more focused; he seems to think that until now, his education almost ended. In year 10 he was completing extended math because he is a bit talented that way, but the extra workload with less input was a struggle, completing 2 plus years of math in 1 year, in a subject he had to take again thenext year, and again this year, work he has already completed!! It may be easier now, but somewhat repetitive!

 

I think the educators are as good here as anywhere; and Lordy, i would give them a medal, i couldnt do it! However, as an child of the UK system from aeons ago.......the broad curriculum is a bit confusing to us more maturepersons!!!

 

Is all. Thanks

[Rich & Chit]

I think it depends on the school. My son just started Yr 8 at Glenunga Int'l High School and get 2hrs homework every night and 6 hrs in the weekend and every day is full on.