Cheap Parent Visas Part I

[Helsby9]

My parents (82 and 84) applied in March 2013. The man at DIAC told me it would be a while before medicals and if mum or dad didn't pass at that stage they could appeal on the grounds that their health had deteriorated during the waiting period.

 

In October 2013 my dads health started to deteriorate and we had several massive events over the next two years.

 

In October 2014 we were asked to provide medicals, unfortunately dad was in hospital, Drs also said he was too frail to undergo a medical and at that stage 'every day was a bonus'. I responded to DIAC stating that dad was not expected to live long and asked for advice, on what to do next, ie should mum proceed with hers?) They did not reply. I thought they were being sympathetic to our situation, so did not chase it. Expecting that dad would pass and then the application would continue for Mum.

 

March 2016, Dad is 'high care needs' and I have given up work to care for him. Many times over the last two years he has been unconscious and not expected to live, but somehow he is still here. He is now catheterised, wheelchair bound and has alzheimers, chronic kidney disease and COPD.

 

Last week their medicare cards were due for renewal. We went to medicare but were told we needed a letter for immigration. We went to immigration and the dept member stated that their 804 visa would be refused as we had ignored their request for medicals and only arrived today because we needed medicare. I explained that I had responded to their request asking for advice but had not had a reply, she said I was being unreasonable waiting so long for a reply I should have continued with the other items. She said that neither mum nor dad (just by looking at mum!) would pass a medical so the only option open to us was a medical visa.

 

So we received our refusal letter yesterday, the same day dad was diagnosed with cancer. As far as I can see have two options:

 

A. Appeal

 

B. Apply for medical visa.

 

I understand I need to act quickly, they have been given 28 days to leave. 21 days to appeal. But I don't know which would be the best option for them. Is the medical visa short term? Will the appeal just lead to a medical visa?

 

 

if anybody has experience of either of these routes, I would be very grateful for the insight.

 

 

 

Hi All

 

Sorry about the catchy title, but I think this thread may be of interest to Parents who are considering migrating to SA and to their children who are in or are headed for SA. I am reluctant to suggest it for any other State because SA is the only State where I know anybody who has looked in to it carefully.

 

My friend Mary lives in Adelaide. Her parents have recently returned from 6 months there. Apart from e-mails between myself and Mary, I have done some sleuthing of my own plus I had a long chat with Mary's Dad yesterday. He is undoubtedly clued up.

 

Distilling the feedback from various sources, the story is as follows.

 

Mary's Parents are "Aged" as per the following link:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/aged/804/index.htm

 

Applications for onshore Aged Parent and Contributory Aged Parent visas at not processed at the POPC (Perth Offshore Parents Centre.) Instead they are processed at the ordinary general DIAC office in the relevant State.

 

Mary's Dad recently went to the DIAC office in Adelaide to enquire about Parent visas for himself and his wife. First they described the offshore Contributory Parent visa. He said he was reluctant to shell out approx £40,000 GBP. Hearing this, they advised that the couple should wait till they are ready to return to Adelaide, return there using 90-day ETA visas and then go to the DIAC office again once they arrive.

 

The advice Mary's Dad received was to apply for the onshore Aged Parent subclass 804 visa on their return to Adelaide.

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/aged/804/index.htm

 

At present, this visa takes about 15 years (sic) to be processed because only 300 are available each year and there are about 5,000 Aged Parent applicants sitting in Australia on Bridging Visas waiting for them. However, on 1st July 2008 this will be doubled to 600 a year, halving the waiting time.

 

Compared to the cost of a Contributory Parent or Contributory Aged Parent visa, the cost of an Aged Parent visa is trivial:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/990i/parent.htm

 

Additionally the Assurance of Support required for it only lasts for two years instead of 10, and the Bond is $7,000 for a couple instead of $14,000.

 

An application for an AP visa is automatically also an application for a Bridging Visa A:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

 

Two aspects of Bridging Visas for Parents worried me initially, though not any more.

 

The first concern is that Form 1024i states that an applicant for a Parent visa will not be entitled to Medicare. Fed up with not knowing whether the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Oz and the UK would reverse the assertion in Form 1024i, I e-mailed both Medicare and DIAC about this last week.

 

Both of them have confirmed to me that as a matter of Policy, a British Parent is indeed covered by the UK/Oz RHCA whilst on a Bridging Visa to the same extent as if s/he were on a tourist visa instead. The RHCA is available regardless of one's age:

 

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/visitors/index.jsp

 

Unless a doctor decides that the propsed treatment is "necessary" Medicare will not pay for any of it. Ambulance insurance is required whatever happens.

 

My other concern is that a Bridging Visa A does not entitle the Parent to return to Oz if s/he goes abroad for any reason. For that, a Bridging Visa B is needed instead and it must be obtained before the Parent leaves Oz. According to Form 1024i, "substantial reasons" are needed before a Bridging Visa B would be forthcoming.

 

According to me, a desire for a family holiday offshore is not a substantial reason, but according to DIAC in Adelaide it is. They say their Policy is that it is not the Aged Parent's fault that AP visas take some years to process. Therefore they are happy to grant a Bridging Visa B and say that this will enable the Parent to spend up to 90 days a year outside Australia if wished. They are not interested in why the Parent might wish to spend time outside Oz. They merely stress that the period outside Oz must not exceed 90 days a year.

 

As luck would have it, Mary's family happened to meet another British couple recently who are in their early 70s. The other couple have applied for Aged Parent visas and are living in Adelaide on Bridging Visas. (Until they were encountered, I was urging caution unless and until somebody could be found locally who is actually in this very situation. I tried to find someone via a thread on here a couple of months ago but drew a blank.)

 

The other couple have decided on private medical insurance for themselves so they are not bothered about the Medicare cover available to them.

 

The other couple have property in South Africa and a child in the UK. Every year, they spend 90 days outside Australia. They go to South Africa, then come to the UK to visit their other child, then back to Adelaide. It suits them to be outside Oz for the three months of winter in Oz so this is what they do.

 

Mary's Dad is thorough. Hearing all this from the other couple, he went back to DIAC in Adelaide to ask why anybody would pay for a CPV if DIAC are as liberal as described above? He was told that the reason why Parents are willing to pay for CPVs is because they want fast processing and certainty. Some Parents consider that these considerations are worth £40K GBP. Other Parents consider that hanging on to their capital is a more compelling idea!

 

Aged Parent visas involve 2 sets of Meds and Police checks. The first set are done within about a year of the visa application being made. The second set are required some years later when the Parent reaches the head of the Queue.

 

Asked what would happen if Mary's Dad or his wife should fail the second meds, DIAC assured him that there would be no question of them being kicked out of Australia.

 

Which is true. If one of the Parents fails the second meds, the drill is to Appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal and insist that the Review Medical Officer re-assesses the meds from scratch. New or additional medical info can be supplied to the RMOC and it will be considered. THe reported MRT cases reveal that the RMOC disagrees with the original MOC surprisingly often.

 

If the RMOC advises that the medical criteria for migration are met, the MRT must remit the application back to DIAC with an Order that the medical criteria are met. In practice there will be no other issues because the 2nd meds will not be requested if anything else about the application is faulty.

 

If the RMOC agrees with the opinion of the original MOC then the MRT must affirm DIAC's original visa refusal and dismiss the appeal. Currently the fixed fee to apply to the MRT is $1400 and approx another $600 to involve the RMOC. If the appeal is successful, the money is refunded. If the appeal is unsuccessful, $2000 is the maximum spent assuming that the family tackle the appeal without professional help - which they can do if they try.

 

If the MRT upholds the visa refusal, then as the legislation stands at the moment the next step is a direct appeal to the Minister for Immi under S351 of the Migration Act 1958. . The Minister can substitute his own decision for that of the MRT if he in his sole discretion considers that it is in the publc interest to do so.

 

The argument is that it is in the interests of the migrant child and grandchildren to permit the Aged Parents to remain with the rest of the family in Oz. Anything else would cause grave hardship to the migrant child, grandchildren etc It is not in the public interest to attract a skilled migrant so that s/he can strengthen the Australian economy (plus boost the Treasury's coffers) but then treat him/her differently from a native-born Aussie whose own Parents are in Oz as of right. Etc etc etc.

 

The results of Ministerial Appeals are not published, but if a Parent is elderly and infirm Australia is very unlikely to try to send him/her back to the UK. By then, s/he has been in Oz for so long that s/he has no real ties left in the UK, plus see above etc etc.

 

An Appeal to the MRT can easily take 2 years to be concluded. Ministerial Appeals are equally slow. The Bridging Visa enables the Parent to remain in Australia throughout the Appeals process.

 

If s/he was too sick to pass the meds 4 years ago, the chances are that s/he will be much worse (or dead) by the time a Ministerial Appeal fails. If the Parent is too ill to travel, no airline or shipping company will agree to carry him/her out of Oz.

 

Kismet. A Bridging Visa P (the medical one) will have to be granted to both Parents because the fit one must be on hand to look after the sick one. Hence Mary's Dad was assured that, one way or another, they would not be kicked out of Australia.

 

Entering Oz on a 90-day ETA with this scheme in mind is, technically, spoodly. A 90-day ETA cannot be granted unless the applicant evinces an intention to enter Australia for the purpose of short-stay tourism only. However, the onus is on DIAC to police the borders. It is not realistic for them to give every person travelling through Adelaide Airport a hard time and in practice they don't. Unless they grill the arriving passenger, they have no means of proving intent and they know this so they do not try to take a point that they coud not win in Court. The Parent goes to Oz intending nothing but a short visit. Whilst there, he wanders along to the DIAC office to make enquiries. They tell him that he is eligible for an Aged Parent visa as it happens....

 

Food for thought, maybe?

 

I think that if anybody wants to investigate this further, you should double-check everything I say. This can be done by visiting the DIAC office in Adelaide and I would strongly recommend doing so in person:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/australia/sa-adelaide.htm

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Misplaced]

Hello All,

 

I haven't been on for a while due to living in Canberra but the info given on here is pretty good and quick. Hence the following question on the 804 visa.

 

My understanding is that the Applicant has to be in Australia when applying for the visa and be in Australia when the visa is granted, is that correct.

 

Looking at the cost of the visa it is a first instalment of $3870 followed by a second instalment of $2065, is that correct. We would also have to pay an assurance of $5000 - the application would be for just one parent. Does this sound about right?

 

I know there will be added costs of health exam and police check.

 

Does anyone know the waiting times?

 

Thank in advance and I hope you are all well.

 

Cheers,

 

Mis.

[johnbshepherd]

Regarding the waiting time for the 804 visa the website still says that it is 25-30 years. I am fairly sure that this is a gross exaggeration with the intention of persuading people to apply for the contributory visa. The current situation is explained in this extract from the most recent reply from DIBP

 

Begin quote

 

ONSHORE APPLICANTS (Subclass 804)

Once your application is allocated to a case officer (which may take up to 12 months) you or your authorised contact will be contacted and asked to provide more documents including police certificates and health clearances to complete your application. As soon as you are assessed as meeting all requirements your application will be placed in a queue and assigned a queue date to wait for a visa place.

We are currently assessing for a queue date applications lodged up to 20 March 2015

We are currently assessing for finalization applications with a queue date up to July 2009

 

End quote

 

This suggests that people who applied in about March 2008 are about to get their 804 visas. Total waiting time for them was a little more than eight years.

 

I applied in September 2006 and actually got the visa in December 2013 so the waiting time hasn't changed much recently. Of course if your parents apply while they are legitimately in Australia, they can stay here until they get their 804's anyway.

 

Hope this helps

[Misplaced]

Thanks for that info John very helpful.

 

Can you or someone confirm that the costs I have quoted are accurate, please?

 

Cheers,

 

Mis

[Tamara (Homes Down Under)]

Regarding the waiting time for the 804 visa the website still says that it is 25-30 years. I am fairly sure that this is a gross exaggeration with the intention of persuading people to apply for the contributory visa. The current situation is explained in this extract from the most recent reply from DIBP

 

Begin quote

 

ONSHORE APPLICANTS (Subclass 804)

Once your application is allocated to a case officer (which may take up to 12 months) you or your authorised contact will be contacted and asked to provide more documents including police certificates and health clearances to complete your application. As soon as you are assessed as meeting all requirements your application will be placed in a queue and assigned a queue date to wait for a visa place.

We are currently assessing for a queue date applications lodged up to 20 March 2015

We are currently assessing for finalization applications with a queue date up to July 2009

 

End quote

 

This suggests that people who applied in about March 2008 are about to get their 804 visas. Total waiting time for them was a little more than eight years.

 

I applied in September 2006 and actually got the visa in December 2013 so the waiting time hasn't changed much recently. Of course if your parents apply while they are legitimately in Australia, they can stay here until they get their 804's anyway.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Thank you so much for this John.

Very, very helpful.

I may have my mother living with me here in the future and this is such a useful post.

[johnbshepherd]

The fees look correct according to this

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa/Fees

[Misplaced]

Thanks John. That's where I got the fees but just wanted another set of eyes! Cheers

 

Craig

 

 

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[johnbshepherd]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that, although you don't pay the second installment until you actually get the visa it is payable at the rate which was in force at the time you applied. In my case the second installment almost doubled between 2006 and 2013 but I still paid at the 2006 rate. The $5,000 bond, which we just got back, is still the same.

[Misplaced]

Hi John and all,

 

Just a quick question I hope.

 

If my MiL is on a tourist visa until March 2017 my understanding is that she would be covered by the Reciprocal Agreement with the U.K. for Medicare, for that period. Is that correct?

 

Also, if she applies for the 804 Aged Parent visa she will go on a Bridging Visa A after her tourist visa expires. Does the Reciprocal Agreement still apply until the 804 is granted?

 

If there is no Medicare cover on a BVA what have others done?

 

Cheers,

 

Mis

 

 

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[beckdownunder]

My understanding is that the reciprocal cover is still available on the Bridging visa A. My dad certainly hasn't had any problems with docs etc and he has been here for a year now on it.

[beckdownunder]

So my parents (82 and 84) have today had their 804 visa refused.They applied in March 2013 and dad took ill in October 2013. In September 2014 they requested medicals, but the Drs said that dad was too frail to undergo a medical. I emailed immigration and asked for advice on what to do, but they did not reply. The reason for refusal is that dad has failed to meet his condition of obtaining a medical within 28 days.Amazingly dad is still with us. Drs still say he cannot undergo a medical and every day is a bonus at this stage. We have lots of medical records to show these things have happened whilst he has been here, 17 seizures, a broken hip, catheterised.Originally when we applied we spoke to a nice man at DIAC who said not to worry if we failed a medical as we could then appeal on the grounds that they are aged parents and their health status can change while waiting for the application to be processed,The last lady I spoke to at DIAC recommended we apply for a medical visa.There is obviously a lot at stake. Which is the better option?Any advice gratefully received my head is whizzing.

 

Hi Helsby 9,

 

I'm so sorry for what you have been though, sounds like you and your parents have had a horrendous couple of years.

 

I can't answer your question, I'm sorry, but wanted to wish you and your parents all the best.

 

Good luck

 

Beck

[Misplaced]

My understanding is that the reciprocal cover is still available on the Bridging visa A. My dad certainly hasn't had any problems with docs etc and he has been here for a year now on it.

 

Thank you for that information. It all helps??

 

 

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[johnbshepherd]

I can confirm what beckdownunder says about reciprocal Medicare. Applicants for the 804 visa are eligible from the day that their application is acknowledged -you don't have to wait for a queue date. Simply take the acknowledgement letter to the local Medicare office. If they give you any trouble refer them to this extract from Hansard:

 

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansards%2F1e9c200e-4362-461a-b69f-0149a53d40f8%2F0163%22

 

The relevant bit is section 9 of the question. Senator Michaela Cash asked

 

(9) Does the eligibility for reciprocal Medicare benefits for parent visa applicants, whether on bridging visas or on 410 visas, apply to both the Parent (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 103) and the Aged Parent (Residence) Visa (Subclass 804).?

 

The answer from Senator Ludwig who was then Minister for Health and Ageing was

 

(9) Yes

 

I certainly used this provision while I was waiting for the 804/

[Misplaced]

Me again,

 

Just wondering if anyone knows what the rejection rate is like for the 804 visa?

 

MiL has returned home for now and she is understandably nervous about selling her house and then in 5 years ( or longer ) being rejected for the visa.

 

Also, with regards to selling the house is that what others parents have done? Does she need to keep the house until the visa is granted.

 

One last question how stringent are the Medicaid?

 

TIA

 

Mis

 

 

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[Alan Collett]

Me again,

 

Just wondering if anyone knows what the rejection rate is like for the 804 visa?

 

MiL has returned home for now and she is understandably nervous about selling her house and then in 5 years ( or longer ) being rejected for the visa.

 

Also, with regards to selling the house is that what others parents have done? Does she need to keep the house until the visa is granted.

 

One last question how stringent are the Medicaid?

 

TIA

 

Mis

 

 

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Retaining and maintaining the property in the UK is a matter of personal choice - though the likely inability to insure the building and contents will most probably dictate its sale.

 

A refusal of a subclass 804 visa application is most likely to arise on the grounds of health. The fallback is a subclass 602 Medical Treatment visa on the basis that the applicant is too unwell to depart Australia:

http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/602-

 

Best regards.

[Misplaced]

Thanks Alan.

 

I suppose looking at things objectively if you have to be at retirement age or over for the 804 then some allowances would be expected during the medical. Especially, as it can take over 5 years to grant the visa someone's health can change in that time.

 

It would be great to be able to talk to some people who have been through the 804 process.

 

 

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[snifter]

It would be great to be able to talk to some people who have been through the 804 process.

 

You would probably find people over on PIO with recent experience of this visa. Very few people on PIA have gone through this in recent years and I'd not be sure of getting many replies here.

[johnbshepherd]

We got our 804 visas in December 2013 - seven years after first application. The final medical (in Sydney) was much less daunting than we expected. I had stage 3 chronic kidney disease at the time and my wife had a minor stroke a few weeks before the medical. We both passed without problems. I was 74 at the time and my wife was 71. Looking at the records of the Migration Review Tribunal at http://www.aat.gov.au/migration-and-refugee-division it appears that very few people fail the final medical test. If you are going to fail on medical grounds you are far more likely to fail the medical when you first apply, than you are at the final stage.

[Misplaced]

Thanks for the reply John it's very helpful.

 

I didn't realise there were two medicals ? When is the first one?

 

 

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[Alan Collett]

Thanks for the reply John it's very helpful.

 

I didn't realise there were two medicals  When is the first one?

 

 

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At the moment, about 12 months from the time the visa application is lodged, prior to the issuing of a queue date.

 

Best regards.

[Misplaced]

Hello me again - the MiL is still looking to move over here permanently but we have an interesting question regarding Wills. If she has made a Will in the UK does that have any legal rights in Oz? Would she be better to make a Will in Oz?

Thanks in advance

Mis


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[Alan Collett]

9 hours ago, Misplaced said:

Hello me again - the MiL is still looking to move over here permanently but we have an interesting question regarding Wills. If she has made a Will in the UK does that have any legal rights in Oz? Would she be better to make a Will in Oz?

Thanks in advance

Mis


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A UK Will can be used by executors if the deceased has assets in Australia, but would most probably require resealing if it is to be capable of being used.

It is likely to be quicker for the executors if there is an Australian Will to administer Australian assets, and a UK Will to administer UK assets.

Also for consideration:

>  Power of Attorney in SA

>  A Domicile Statement, if the net estate will trigger an Inheritance Tax liability in the UK.

>  CGT in Australia on death if any CGT Assets in the estate are bequeathed to a non-Aus resident beneficiary

Feel able to contact me via a Private Message or email if you would like to explore these issues more fully.

Best regards.

[ausdre]

Hi All,

 

Not sure if this thread is still active.

Hi All, Refently got parents medical assessment request for 804, lodged 3 years back.

Question— Has anyone got rejected in the initial medical assessment or it is just to check if TB or any other communicable disease is there or not ?

2.) Can diabetes(controlled) be an issue for rejection ? Do they even check it in the request.

They have BP(controlled one) and my mother had breast cancer (25 years ago, she was assessed earlier as well and was granted visitor visa), My concern is there a chance they can fail this initial medical test, Have you seen any forum where such incident has happened or this initial assessment is just to check if any communicable disease is there or not like HIV,TB etc .