Cheap Parent Visas Part I

[Guest Candre]

Please slow right down, honey.

Yes I should have .. actually I have been mulling over this for long time. Didn’t take much action, we’ve been waiting 3 years for my sister to be granted her PR, then suddenly the last couple of months a sense of urgency overcome me. Very grateful for your quick reply Gil, you have been helping so many people here, and I’ve learned a lot from your clear posts!

 

It is impossible for you to be "planning" that your Parents should apply for an APV 804 unless and until your Parents are actually in Australia.

Note taken! Thank you for reminding me this.

 

Moving on, I am a bit confused by the part about you and your sister. Are you and she the ONLY two children that either of your Parents has?

Yes, my parents have only 2 children: my sister and I. We have been living in Australia for years, graduated and have jobs here. That’s why there will be noone to take care of our parents there.

 

New legislation introduced on 01 July 2011 does now allow the identity of the Sponsor to be changed between the ToA and the ToD but why would you want to do this, please? I do not understand that bit of your post either.

It’s because my sister is not a PR yet (she’s on skilled migration and her occupation apparently has fallen down the priority ladder. Her ex-classmate who applied together with her also experiences the same long wait.)

 

When my parent’s application lodged, they would have only 1 of 2 children “settled” in Australia, and I would be the only one who could be the sponsor and Assurer of Support for them.

 

But if after a while my sister got her PR granted, can we add her name to the on-going application? That way there will be 2 of 2 children “settled” in Australia, i.e. 100% children are here. I suppose that makes the case stronger, or do you think it doesn’t really matter having ½ or 2/2 children settling here?

 

Edit: Sorry what are ToD and ToA? And would you mind giving us the link to that new legislation?

 

The 2nd Instalment of the Visa Application Charge is the very final item to be requested before the visa is granted. (My own mother has a CPV. She was almost 85 when it was granted.

I am happy for your mother, reading about the long battle on stepchildren matter, I am glad she’s finally here reunited with you! It’s wonderful to be living with family, eating, talking, laughing together……

 

The rental income would boost your Parents' income if they are living in Oz on a Bridging Visa - which is an expensive way to live in Australia, as your sister is doubtless aware.

That’s a very good idea to consider. I’ll mention it to my parents see what they think.

 

Cheers

Cath

Edited April 15, 2012 by Candre

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Cath

 

Thanks for your reply. Now that you have explained that you and your sister are both ex-International Students, the whole thing now makes sense to me as well!

 

Yes, you could lodge an application with yourself as the Sponsor and then change it later so as to make your sister the Sponsor instead. Technically, it is now possible to do this.

However, you need to bear two things in mind:-

 

1. Changing the identity of the Sponsor is likely to have a zero effect on your Parents' eventual position in the official Queue; and

 

2. There is no legal requirement for the Sponsor and the Assurer of Support to be the same person. Usually, one of the children acts as the Sponsor and the Assurer rolled into one but that is only because it happens to suit family convenience to do things this way. Legally, the Sponsor must be one of the children but the Assurer (if an individual) need not be related to the Parents or to the Sponsor in any way. If an individual, the Assurer merely needs to be a Permanent Resident or Citizen of Australia - that can be a friend, a relation who is not also one of the children and it is also possible to buy a brand new, "off the shelf" company that can act as the Assurer. There is no legal requirement for the company to do any trading. The only downside with the company Assurer route is that the Bond required would be higher than if an individual or a group of individuals act as the Assurer. Up to 3 individuals can club together to provide an Assurance of Support - in that situation, each of them assumes "joint & several liability" which means that each Assurer is personally responsible for the whole of any recoverable claims made on Centrelink.

 

If an individual or group of individuals, the Assurer is means-tested and it is important to bear this in mind with Contributory Parent visas, in particular. Please see the link below although please be aware that the current information will be well and truly obsolete by the time that a new applicant for an APC 804 or the Parent 103 visa reaches the head of the Queue:

 

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/guides_acts/ssg/ssguide-9.html

 

However, the Aussie Government will also publish new versions of the Social Security Guide as time goes on, so as long as you can remember what it is called, you will easily be able to find the latest vesrions as time goes on.

 

With regard to a Parent's position in the official Queue, there is an official pecking order about this, set out in Ministerial Direction [42, possibly, though I cannot remember the exact number of the Ministerial Direction.] There used to be a Fact Sheet on the DIAC website that described the provisions in the Ministerial Direction but the Fact Sheet was removed some time ago. It was available when we applied for my mother's CPV in 2005/6, though. I worked it out as follows:-

 

1. Mum was 84, so she was old but she was not the oldest Parent by any means. I've heard of 2 old ladies who were 97 at the relevant times and an old man who was 92 at the time. The Parent's age does affect his/her position in the pecking order *at the time when the Queue Date is set.*

 

2. Mum has two children. One, my sister, is an Australian Citizen. The other child (me) lives in the UK and I have no plans to move to Australia. Parents who have all of their children in Australia, preferably as Australian Citizens, enjoy a slighly higher position in the pecking order. However, for this to be relevant all the children must at least have PR in Australia BEFORE the time when the Queue Date is set (around 18 - 24 months after the application is lodged with an APV 804 or a Parent 103 visa.) Once the Queue Date is set it cannot be changed later, no matter what else happens during the subsequent years of waiting.

 

3. Whether or not the Parent is single is also relevant to the pecking order. Single Parents enjoy a slighly higher position than couples. My mother is a widow so, mentally, I was able to "tick that box," as it were!

 

All in all, I concluded that my mother would be about half-way up/down the pecking order.

 

Let us imagine a widow, aged 100, all of whose children are Australian Citizens, all of them living in Australia at the time when her Queue Date is set. She could be given a Queue Date that is earlier than the date on which her application for an APV 804 was actually lodged. Theoretically, this is possible though I don't know whether it ever happens in practice. DIAC never publish any statistics about the people in the official Queue, though they probably do have the statistics privately.

 

Let us say that the hypothetical widow's Queue Date suggests that she will not have to wait for more than 3 or 4 years. However, a cluster of new widows then apply for Parent visas or APVs, all of then older than the original widow. The new widows will jump ahead of the original widow in the Queue meaning that the original widow will have to wait for longer than we originally thought.

 

Then 3 of the "newer" widows die. The original widow will move further up in the Queue because places ahead of hers have been released.

 

DIAC are not prepared to waste their own time on endless minute dissection of these details. The Queue Calculator is a "rough & ready" guide and as far as DIAC are concerned, that will just have to do. In practice, the family will be told some months before the visa is finalised because a CO will make contact to request the meds and PCCs, If those are OK then the CO will move on to asking for the Assurance of Support to be put into place and so forth. Once all the final details are in place including payment of the 2nd Instalment, the CO might then say that the Parent will have to wait until after 01 July in the current calendar year, until a new batch of Parent visas has become available on 01 July that year.

 

The Parents Visa Centre are excellent. On 01 July each year and in the succeeding weeks, they have a big push to grant as many of the non-contributory Parent visas as they possiblly can and they have usually used up the whle of the non-contributory quota by about the end of August/mid September each year. They hold back a few of the visas because, for example, somebody might have lodged an Appeal to the MRT in the event of a visa refusal. If the MRT say that the visa should be granted then the successful appellant's visa application is then processed and finalised as a top priority. However, the system has been working brilliantly ever since 199, according to the article below by David Bitel, a very eminent Immigration Law solicitor in Sydney:

 

http://www.parishpatience.com.au/parent.pdf

 

My Aunt Connie got one of the non-contributory Parent visas sometime in the 1970s or 1980s, I believe. I do remember her vaguely from my childhood (I'm 55 now) but then Aunt Connie went off to join her two children in Malbourne and I never saw her again. She died 3 or 4 years ago, aged 94 according to my mother. (I come form a very large family. My mother was one of 10 siblings and all except one of them produced children so I believe I have around 30 or 40 first cousins. Some of the siblings were more prolific than others! Some of my first cousins who are still alive must be in their 80s by now. I believe that my sister and I are probably the two youngest or nearly so. Frankly, none of us would bother to keep in touch with each other if it weren't for my mother, who is interested in everyone, remembers whose child each cousin is etc! I just listen vaguely when Mum tells me News of Coucin Bloggs, when half tihe time I have to ask who Cousin Bloggs is?! At least 20 Cousin Bloggses and their children seem to have moved to Australia over the years although my sister is the only one in Perth. The rest seem to be in Melbourne, Sydney and Darwin.)

 

It was never possible for us to think about a non-contributory Parent visa for Mum because she only became interested in moving to Oz after my father died in 1991. Then it wasn't possible for her to get any sort of Parent visa until 12/13 years later because Mum was Dad's second wife so Mum inherited a step-child by Dad's first wife, who was only 12 when Mum & Dad married etc. I tell you, my family has been through the mill with this Parent Migration idea!

 

By the time we eventually discovered that Mum would finally be OK on the BoF Test, it was 2005. An MRT case in 2003 r 2004 had finally forced DIAC to give in about the "step-child issue." I decided to strike whilst the iron was hot and to grab a CPV for my mother before DIAC could have a chance to alter the Law, frankly!

 

Mum was in the UK with me at the time and she wittered all sorts of pathetic excuses, as in:-

 

Mum: I'm nearly 84. Is it worth spending so much money at my age?

Gill: Yes it is, so be quiet and let me concentrate on the details, please.

Mum: I want to go to Australia again for a few months so that I can discuss the idea with Elaine.

Gill: I've alteady spoken to Elaine on the phone and by e-mail. She agrees that we should get on and act fast.

Mum: Are you sure?

Gill: YES, SO BE QUET AND LET ME CONCENTRATE!!!!

 

Once your own parents are in Oz, don't be surprised if they witter the place down if my own experience is anything to go by! I found it was necessary to be very firm with my own mother so Elaine and I prepared all the forms and then I told Mum, "Sign here, please. I don't have time to discuss it. Just sign it and let me send this stuff off to Australia!"

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Hayshake]

To add to this thread, I have just received the latest timings for Parent Visa's, and these do not seem to get any better as they have been about the same for years.

 

Parent and Contributory Parent queue: There are a limited number of places available each

year for Parent and Contributory Parent category visas. If you are a new applicant for a Parent

(non-contributory) visa, you will be queued and can expect an approximate 15 year wait after

your queue date has been allocated. If you are a new applicant for a Contributory Parent visa,

you can expect to wait 12 to 24 months before visa grant consideration. More information on

the waiting times for parent visas is available.

 

I obtained this information from the following Website, which publishes the latest news regularly. iscah.com

Edited July 26, 2014 by snifter
email

[Gollywobbler]

To add to this thread, I have just received the latest timings for Parent Visa's, and these do not seem to get any better as they have been about the same for years.

 

Parent and Contributory Parent queue: There are a limited number of places available each

year for Parent and Contributory Parent category visas. If you are a new applicant for a Parent

(non-contributory) visa, you will be queued and can expect an approximate 15 year wait after

your queue date has been allocated. If you are a new applicant for a Contributory Parent visa,

you can expect to wait 12 to 24 months before visa grant consideration. More information on

the waiting times for parent visas is available.

 

I obtained this information from the following Website, which publishes the latest news regularly. @iscah.com

 

Hi Hayshake

 

Two points, if I may.

 

1. ISCAH are only describing the *offshore* Parent and Contributory Parent visas. The waiting times for the *onshore* Aged Parent and Contributory Aged Parent visas is very much shorter because there are far fewer applicants for the visas in the onshore categories. Contributory Aged Parent visas are taking about 6 months to process from start to finish because 600 are available each year and demand for them equals the supply of them, so the processing begins very promptly. With the onshore non-contributory Aged Parent visa subclass 804, the current waiting time is around 8-9 years because at the moment 600 visas are available each year and there are about 5,500 applicants waiting for them at any one time.

 

2. Both DIAC and ISCAH need to "manage expectations," as they say. In about February 2011, I e-mailed the Parents Visa Centre to ask about likely processing times. They told me that the wait for a new applicant for a non-contributory Parent sc 103 visa would be arround 22 years, since the quota at the time only permitted the grant of 700 offshore PV103s each year. However, this quota was suddenly doubled in the 2011 Federal Budget, so for the moment 1,400 PV103s are available each year. Therefore the waiting time now is clearly much lower than the 22 years that the PVC told me.

 

All that said, Parents are being treated like political footballs, as usual. This goes back to 1999 according to David Bitel, a solicitor who is also an Accredited Specialist in Immigration Law, over in Sydney. David Bitel is one of the most eminent Immigration lawyers around. He described some of the history in the article below:

 

http://www.parishpatience.com.au/parent.pdf

 

According to DIAC's Annual Report published in about December 2010, the PVC had noticed a sharp fall in the demand for offshore Contributory Parent Visas. At the time, 6,900 of these were available each year. DIAC attributed the fall in demand to the Global Financial Crisis. The Ministerial Target time for processing an application for an offshore CPV is 12-18 months. (Some applications inevitably take longer than others because there may be problems with the meds or the applicant might not have lodged all the necessary documents at the beginning etc.)

 

In the 2011 Budget, it was decided to reduce the total quota of offshore CPVs and CAPVs to 6,500 in total each year, down from a total of 7,500 the previous year. The PVC seem to have decided that they didn't want to relinquish control of 1,000 Parent visas out of a total of 8,500 a year, so the non-contributory Parent and Aged Parent quota was suddenly doubled from 1,000 to 2,000 in total.

 

I suspect that this sudden "generosity" towards the non-contributory Parents is temporary. When the global economy improves (and perhaps the AUD is devalued a little) everyone expects the demand for CPVs to increase once again. When this happens, I reckon that the "spare" 1,000 visas currently sitting with the non-contributory Parents will be retrieved from them and returned to the CPV and CAPV quota instead.

 

Australia is making a LOT of money out of the CPV scheme. I think it was in 2009 that the DIAC Report said they had earned $24 MILLION out of selling CPVs in 2008-9. I laughed my sox off because the same Report said that DIAC had commissioned a new computer system that was going to cost $25 million over the same period. I thought, "Good God. All the British Constibutory Parent visa applicants have spent the last 30 years being plagued to buy Computers for Schools in the UK and now they are being pestered to buy Computers for the Australian Government as well!"

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited July 26, 2014 by snifter
email quoted

[johnbshepherd]

Gill

 

I am impressed by what you know about the parent visas. I am in the queue for the 804 with a queue date of May 30 2007. It looks as if the total waiting time from the queue date will be about eight years, or nearly nine from first application. I have a friend who is thinking about applying but is worried about the medical. Somewhere in this thead you (I think!) said that the first medical might be no longer required. Do you know if that has happened yet? There are distinct advantages to just being in the queue.

 

Regards

 

JBS

[Gollywobbler]

Gill

 

I am impressed by what you know about the parent visas. I am in the queue for the 804 with a queue date of May 30 2007. It looks as if the total waiting time from the queue date will be about eight years, or nearly nine from first application. I have a friend who is thinking about applying but is worried about the medical. Somewhere in this thead you (I think!) said that the first medical might be no longer required. Do you know if that has happened yet? There are distinct advantages to just being in the queue.

 

Regards

 

JBS

 

Hi JBS

 

According to the DIAC website, they have now decided to earmark 500 places a year for sc 804 applicants. (In July 2011, DIAC said it was going to be 600 visas a year for the sc 804 but the website definitely now says 500, so the PVC must have tweaked the quota a bit.)

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/parent-visa-processing-priorities.htm

 

Having just checked the Queue Calculator, it says that there are about 1880 people still ahead of you. Dividing that by 500, I'm getting a further wait of 3.76 years. Is that what you get as well?

 

I don't know what has been decided about the first set of meds and pccs. In the document that I read, DIAC suggested that it is expensive to process two sets of meds and pccs. The 1st Instalment of the visa application charge pays for the visa processing, including processing the meds and pccs. The 1st INstalments haven't rishen that much in recent years so I think it is understandable that DIAC are looking for ways of cutting their own overheads. However, I don't know what was decided in the end, so you would have to ask the PVC by e-mailing parents[at]immi.gov.au

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[johnbshepherd]

Hi Gill

 

Your numbers from the calculator are exactly the same as mine of course. I have kept records since January 2008 and the queue has shrunk at a fairly regular rate of around 700 per year for the whole of that time regardless of what DIAC says about the number of visas it intends to award. It slowed down noticeably during calendar 2011 but has started to speed up again now - 110 last month for example. The measured rate should account for people who fail the final medical, people who have died by the time the visa is offered and people who turn the visa down for unknown reasons, as well as actual visa awards. A small number will no longer quailfy because their children have re-emigrated (or died) by the time they reach the front of the queue. My estimates to completion were based on this slightly-faster rate. My biggest worry is that they may cut the rate of visa awards drastically before I reach the head of the queue. At the moment the major delay seems to be in getting into the queue. I know people who applied nearly two years ago and still don't have a queue date. In my case I applied in September 2006 and my queue date is July 2007 - although I was not informed about this until March 2009

 

I am very impressed by your contributions to this thread. Please keep up the good work.

 

Best Regards

 

JBS

Edited April 25, 2012 by johnbshepherd

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill

 

Your numbers from the calculator are exactly the same as mine of course. I have kept records since January 2008 and the queue has shrunk at a fairly regular rate of around 700 per year for the whole of that time regardless of what DIAC says about the number of visas it intends to award. It slowed down noticeably during calendar 2011 but has started to speed up again now - 110 last month for example. The measured rate should account for people who fail the final medical, people who have died by the time the visa is offered and people who turn the visa down for unknown reasons, as well as actual visa awards. A small number will no longer quailfy because their children have re-emigrated (or died) by the time they reach the front of the queue. My estimates to completion were based on this slightly-faster rate. My biggest worry is that they may cut the rate of visa awards drastically before I reach the head of the queue. At the moment the major delay seems to be in getting into the queue. I know people who applied nearly two years ago and still don't have a queue date. In my case I applied in September 2006 and my queue date is July 2007 - although I was not informed about this until March 2009

 

I am very impressed by your contributions to this thread. Please keep up the good work.

 

Best Regards

 

JBS

 

Hi JBS

 

Now, me old darlin'! This thread has always been short of exactly the sort of information that you can supply, so I want to pick your brains, please! I've been longing for someone like you to join this thread because none of the people I know have been waiting for very long, so you can fill in some gaps for all of us, please?

 

You say that you applied in Sept 2006 but that you were not told your Queue Date until 2.5 years later. Am I right, please?

 

Presumably you had to do a first set of meds and pccs? If yes, when were those requested, please?

 

Have you had any problems with Medicare & the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement whilst you've been on a Bridging Visa? I keep hearing vague mutterings that they might try to restrict the Medicare/RHCA entitlement to 3 years only but (a) I haven't heard that it has happened; and (b) they might do this for other visa categories but I doubt whether they would do it to Aged Parents. Have you heard anything about this, please?

 

Do you have private medical insurance as well? If yes, have you had any problems with getting an acceptable policy at an acceptable price every year?

 

How is the holder of a Bridging Visa treated for taxation purposes, please? Are you treated as Temporary Residents or as Non Residents?

 

Have you been able to get Seniors Cards or, if not, would there be any hassle about getting those?

 

Have you tried to get Permission to Work, at all?

 

I'm sure I will think of other questions as well but the above is probably enough for the time being. I would be hugely grateful if you would be kind enough to help to fill in all these gaps in this thread.

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill

 

Your numbers from the calculator are exactly the same as mine of course. I have kept records since January 2008 and the queue has shrunk at a fairly regular rate of around 700 per year for the whole of that time regardless of what DIAC says about the number of visas it intends to award. It slowed down noticeably during calendar 2011 but has started to speed up again now - 110 last month for example. The measured rate should account for people who fail the final medical, people who have died by the time the visa is offered and people who turn the visa down for unknown reasons, as well as actual visa awards. A small number will no longer quailfy because their children have re-emigrated (or died) by the time they reach the front of the queue. My estimates to completion were based on this slightly-faster rate. My biggest worry is that they may cut the rate of visa awards drastically before I reach the head of the queue. At the moment the major delay seems to be in getting into the queue. I know people who applied nearly two years ago and still don't have a queue date. In my case I applied in September 2006 and my queue date is July 2007 - although I was not informed about this until March 2009

 

I am very impressed by your contributions to this thread. Please keep up the good work.

 

Best Regards

 

JBS

 

Hi again, JBS

 

Now to comment on your actual post instead of just asking loads of nit-picking questions!

 

As far as I know, Parliament is pretty strict about the annual figures for visa grants. DIAC's annual Reports suggest that DIAC are even more strict about this. They might overshoot or undershoot a quota by about hald a dozen visas each way but no more than that. I remember a hiatus with the Contributory Parent processing a few years ago, when everything suddenly ground to a halt in about May. The PVC said that they were checking all their figures to ensure that they would not exceed the quota. They said that they still had some spare visas but they wanted to make sure the numbers were accurate before they granted any more, just in case.

 

So my suspicion is that the Queue Calculator probably exaggerates. Understandably, because DIAC need to "manage expectations" etc. Do you reckon that this is likely, please?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[johnbshepherd]

Hi Gill

 

I will try to answer your questions as best I can. I do not claim to be an expert at all and can only speak from my own experience. Other people may have had a different experience. There is a slight complication in that I also have a Temporary Retirement visa subclass 410 – a visa that is no longer accepting new applications of course. I arrived in Oz originally in December 2004 on an ETA to visit my daughter, having just retired. This was a genuine visit but during the time I was here another grandchild appeared and my wife got involved in childcare so we applied for the 410 in early 2005. At the time this was the quickest and cheapest visa that allowed us to stay for an extended period. By mid 2006 it appeared obvious that we were settling semi-permanently so I applied for the 804 Aged Parent visa which would allow us to stay permanently. The situation here is that if you have the 410 visa and then apply for the 804 you are awarded a bridging visa A, but the bridging visa “sits in the background” as long as you keep renewing the 410. Nevertheless as a UK resident you are entitled to the RHCA card as long as you are waiting for the 804 application to be finally decided.

1. RHCA. The only dispute about the RHCA card is how often you have to renew it. The strict legal position is that you are entitled to hold the card until your substantive visa application is settled (this applies to the 103 visa as well provided that your original application was made in Australia). The best official source I can find at the moment is in the Senate Official Hansard, for Tuesday 5 July 2011 (last page). At a meeting of the Senate (i.e. Commonwealth of Australia Senate) community affairs committee, Senator Michaela Cash of W.A. asked:
   

Question 9: Does the eligibility for reciprocal Medicare benefits for parent visa applicants, whether on bridging visas or on 410 visas, apply to both the Parent (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 103) and the Aged Parent (Residence) Visa (Subclass 804)?.

 

Answer: Yes

There is no mention of any three-year restriction – just a straight “yes”.

 

How long they renew it for seems to depend on which MEDICARE office you deal with. Some offices extend it year-by-year, others give three years and others give five. My office (on the Central Coast of NSW) is fairly relaxed so I have a five-year card, which seems to be the maximum. My best suggestion is to accept whatever your local office offers. Do not rock the boat: it only takes minutes to apply for another extension. Complain only if they refuse to extend it at all and in that case quote the Senate answer.

1. Private Medical Insurance. I, personally, do not have private insurance. This is a personal choice – other people choose differently - but private insurance is very expensive. The RHCA gives me roughly the same protection as the NHS in England. That is I can get, and have had, free treatment in public hospitals, subsidized prescriptions and a safety net through the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS), and my GP Bulk Bills for routine visits – that is they are free. Not all GP’s do this. Some very expensive drugs are excluded and waiting lists for elective procedures can be long so I am told. I don’t have bunions but I do have gout and the treatment for that is free and the drugs are subsidized.
   
2. Taxation. I am an Australian resident for tax purposes. This means that I pay Australian taxes on all income earned in Australia – all from investments in my case. My UK income (pensions of various sorts) is not taxed in Australia but it is taxed in the UK. This may be because of the 410 visa not the bridging visa. This arrangement means that I get two sets of personal allowances.
   
3. Seniors Cards. There is a Commonwealth (i.e Australia-Wide) Seniors Card but this is for citizens and permanent residents only. Each state has its own Seniors’ Card and rules vary. In WA there is no problem. In NSW where I live it used to be possible to get the state card but that is no longer the case. I don’t know about Adelaide.
   
4. Work. The 410 visa allows me to work as much as I like – which is not at all in my case: that is why I retired.
   

It’s getting late on ANZAC day so I will break now. I may come back with more if anyone is interested.

 

Best Regards

 

JBS

[johnbshepherd]

Hi Gill

 

To complete my reply with a few dates. I originally applied for the 804 on September 6 2006. At this time parent visa applications were handled at State level so my application went to the Sydney office of DIMIA (as it then was). I thought I had done my research carefully and sent with the application all of the documents which seemed necessary – including our biometric data and details about our daughter who was a settled Australian resident at the time and was prepared to provide the AOS. DIMIA acknowledged the application very promptly and I received a letter dated September 8 which stated that my application had been received and passed to “the Resident Section of our Paramatta office where your file will be allocated to a case officer who will contact you in due course”. “In due course” turned out to be 7 February 2007 when I was told to attend the Sydney office for medicals for me and my wife. They also asked for another set of documents including birth and marriage certificates for our other daughter who lives in England. The medical was on March 6 2007. My wife passed the medical OK but I was referred back to a specialist for further tests because of high blood pressure. On March 11 I received a further letter from my case officer who asked for yet more documents including the final medical reports on both of us and things like photographs of my children. There was a deadline of 28 days plus seven working days to supply the information. Most of this I duly sent off . The specialist’s report went directly to the department.

 

DIMIA seemed very efficient and they were always very polite. There was a certain amount of jumping through hoops but there always is with government departments. Anyway the final deadline came and went and I heard nothing. Some time in June I called my case officer to ask what was happening. It turned out that my case officer had changed but the new one was quite reassuring. He said that all the documents had been received and were satisfactory. I would receive written notification in due course (again) but there was no point in contacting them again for at least ten years because of the long queue. In January 2008 my daughter became an Australian citizen and I wrote and told DIMIA about that since they had specifically said that they must be informed about any change in circumstances. They acknowledged without comment.

 

This time “in due course” turned out to be February 20 2009 when I received a letter headed “Notice of Application of Queue Date”. By then handling of parent visas had been passed to the Perth Parent Centre which may account for the delay – I also had yet another case officer. Until then I had naively assumed that my Queue Date would be the date of first application. In fact it was (and is) 30 May 2007. With a little digging on the DIAC (as it now was) website I found that the queue date is “ the date that the application was assessed as meeting the initial criteria for a Parent (non-contributory) visa.”. This date fits with the previous dates so I have been treated quite fairly. The queue date letter warned me that there were 5000 people in front of me and as there were only 300 visas available per year (at that time) I was in for a long wait. There was one final twist in the story. When I inserted the queue date into the calculator it told me that nobody was queued on that date. I e-mailed the centre and somebody replied that my Queue Date was February 20 2009. I e-mailed back to say that this was the date I was told about the Queue Date not the date itself. The person’s supervisor stepped in and corrected things with an apology for any inconvenience caused.

 

My overall impression of the department is that they were always polite - with the notable exception of the person who gave me the wrong queue date - and eventually efficient. At the moment (April 2012) it seems that there are even longer delays in getting a queue date. If my experience is a valid guide these queue dates may eventually be back-dated to “the date that the application was assessed as meeting the initial criteria for a Parent (non-contributory) visa.”. For anyone going through the procedure, simply be patient and supply them with all the documentation they need. It’s going to be a long wait anyway – although not as long as the website claims – so a few more months will make no difference.

Best regards

 

JBS

Edited April 26, 2012 by johnbshepherd
typos

[Gollywobbler]

Hi JBS

 

You are a mine - a posiive goldfield - of fascinating and extremely valuable information, my friend. This thread, to my certain knowledge, is read by literally thousands of people - most of whom never join Poms in Adelaide and never say anything themselves. Hence I look after the thread as if it were a baby and do my best to ensure that the information on it is always accurate, up-to-date etc.

 

My own feeling with the non-contributory Parent and Aged Parent visas is that the annual quotas of them will be cut back somewhat if/when the demand for Contributory Parent visas increases again. I think that will happen sometime though it is not possible to predict exactly when.

 

However, I don't think that we are likely to see a return to the Bad Old Days of 1999, described in David Bitel's article below:

 

http://www.parishpatience.com.au/parent.pdf

 

David Bitel is this guy:

 

http://www.parishpatience.com.au/profiles.htm#dlb

 

Mr Bitel is very eminent, clearly knows what he is talking about and so forth. I think the really bad year of cutting the number of Parent visas to the bone was just a political tactic that is unlikely ever to happen again.

 

I know the daughter of a lady who applied for an APV 804 about 18 months ago now. As far as I know, she has not been asked to produce meds and pccs (but I will double-check about that.) A few weeks ago the lady's daugher asked me when they might expect to receive a Queue Date? I didn't know, so I suggested asking the Parents Visa Centre but from what you say, 18 months after the application is far too early to worry. This information will reassure the lady's daughter so thanks very much for letting us all know about that.

 

I believe that the Parents Visa Centre is a very small unit, the staff of which get press-ganged into helping with other Immigration problems whenever the need arises. In 2006, just as my mother's application for her CPV was being finalised, the PVC staff were being sent to Perth Airport pretty regularly.

 

At the time there was major unrest in the Middle East, Beirut Airport had been closed and the Aussie Government decided to lay on "mercy flights" in order to evacuate all of the Australian Citizens and Permanent Residents who happened to be in the Middle East at the time. Most of the evacuees had fled from bombing etc so they often had no identity documents, no money, no credit cards etc with them. The Government decided to evacuate everyone who claimed Aussie Immgration status in some way, get them to the safety of Australia and sort it out there.

 

The "mercy flights" were aboard a fleet of chartered Jumbo Jets etc which all left from Larnaca. Sydney and Melbourne Airports are both very busy, as you know, whereas Perth Airport is comparitively quiet. So several of the mercy flights were told to land in Perth first. The emergency Immigration clearance was done in Perth and then the flights continued as domestic flights to other major cities in Oz. The PVC staff became the front-line team to go and deal with the emergency clearances at Perth Airport.

 

Whilst all this was going on, the normal DIMIA team at Perth Airport poached the PVC Case Officer who was handling Mum's CPV application. She told us that Mum's application was one of the last batch of Parent applications that she herself would be handling before leaving for her new job, which was going to be based at Perth Airport, she said. (These days, I would guess that the PVC staff are probably in the front line for being sent to Christmas Island instead!)

 

The PVC staff are particularly lovely, in my view. All DIAC staff are usually ultra-polite but the PVC staff are ultra-considerate as well. Nothing seems to be too much trouble for them and we never felt that we were on any sort of conveyor belt.

 

My only small criticism of DIAC in Perth (but not the PVC themselves) is that Killjoys will be Killjoys! Once Mum's CPV had been granted, we went to enormous trouble to choose some orchids growing in a pot out of one of the Interflora catalogues. We checked that the orchids had been grown on Aussie soil etc and arranged for a florist in Perth to deliver them to Mum's CO at the PVC. To start with, the Killjoys in the DIAC building thought that the lady's husband had sent the flowers so the flowers went upstairs to the PVC. The CO had already left the PVC by then but her ex-colleagues read the card and realised that the flowers were from a recent client. They kept the card and sent that on to the CO but the Killjoys insisted on destroying the flowers. Apparently there is a very strict rule that DIAC staff are not allowed to receive gifts of any sort.

 

Good God! They were only flowers! Also, why destroy them? Couldn't the Killjoys have arranged for one of the staff to drop the flowers off at one of the hospitals or something? I loathe Killjoys who have zero common-sense and zero sense of proportion.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest AngPhil]

Thanks - this is great.

[johnbshepherd]

Just one word of caution for people who have waited a long time for a queue data. If the first medical and police checks are no longer necessary then anyone who has sent in the other documents may already have satisfied the conditions for getting a queue date and all will be well. If the medical etc. are still necessary then the earliest queue data they can get is the day the medical reports are submitted.

 

There is another sign that things are working slowly at the parent centre. The most recent valid queue date I can find is 13 September 2011. There are 3320 people queued on that date which should mean that at 500 per year, people just joining the queue will have to wait for about seven years . For a queue date of 14 September 2010 the number in the queue is 3230. This suggests to me that only 90 people have been given queue dates in the past year. Either the rate of applications has become drastically slower or the Parent Centre is having difficulty keeping up. I have no idea which.

 

Best regards

 

JBS

Edited April 28, 2012 by johnbshepherd

[Guest mr luvpants]

Hi Gill, remember me??????

 

Well we have been here for 15 months now and going great guns. Lisa's parents are over here at the moment and have made noises about staying and tonight they sat us down and said that they want to go for the APV. They have been looking at houses today and its great news (I read in one of your earlier posts) that they can apply for permission to buy a house.

 

I will be putting in an application next week. My only worry (and I hope that you or someone else can help me out here) is that MiL had a small cancer op in November 2007 and has had regular check ups since then and all is good but is that going to affect their application?

 

We have only been here 15 months but as I am a QLD copper and Lisa is a FT nurse I cant really see how DIAC can say we are not settled?

 

Also if the in laws would not be getting a PR visa for a few years, what would happen if the cancer came back or one of them got ill with something else? Obviously they would not pass the medical so would they be sent back to the UK? They would be over 80 by then.

 

Finally, I understand that they would get the Bridging visa A as soon as they applied but how long would this take to come through? They are talking about going back to the UK to get stuff sorted, house sold etc as they are booked to fly back in early June so would need a Bridging B visa asap. How long does that application take?

 

Many thanks Gill and nice to be incontact again. Loving your work!

 

JOHN

[Thorpe1]

Hi John,

 

I hope you dont mind me answering some of your queires in relation to the APV as Gill will be tucked up in bed now.

 

In my opinion you do not need an agent (if you were considering one). The forms are quite easy to fill in. Once you have submitted your forms and paid the first instalment, which is about $2500 per person you send the forms off and from my own experience if you have done everything properly, and sent all the information, it is usually about 10 days before you are given a 'bridging visa A'

 

Now that is for the 'on shore' APV which means that your parents need to be in Australia when they apply and in Australia when it is eventually granted.

 

From reading some of Gill's posts I think that the purpose of the 'bridging visa B' is to allow parents to leave the country to visit other children and relatives while on thier BV A. Even to attend family weddings, funerals and stuff. I do not think that DIAC would agree to a BV B so soon after an application was made by your parents.

 

 

If you fit all the criteria then why not let your paretns go back to the UK, sell their house and sort everything out. Then come back on a 3 month tourist visa when they are ready. That would be the time to apply for the BV A. That does not stop them buying a property between now and when they return as my own mother brought a property when she was on a tourist visa.

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers

 

Karen

[johnbshepherd]

Hi

 

The first visa charge for the 804 visa is $2960 but that covers both applicants. There is then a second charge of $1735 per person when they eventually get around to offering the visa. This from the immi.gov site at:

 

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/aged/804/

 

 

Immigration specifically recommends that you should not sell any property before you actually have the visa in hand.

 

Cheers

 

JBS

[Guest Candre]

Hi, I have been occupied with other things lately like work etc got me so mentally exhausted everyday after work.

 

Gil, I can't begin to express how much I thank you for your patient and compassionate answers to us here, and it's wonderful that not only you know so much but also able to put flesh on the knowledge so it's easier for us to chew :-)

 

I've talked to my parents, and they are considering the options. They are the ones who are going to go through all these migration things. And after all, they are unlike your mom who made noises but in the end signed the papers for you to send to Australia... my parents are sensitive people.... so I summarised the info, gave them the options, and sit back to wait for their verdict.

 

One thing you mentioned about 804 is not actually as cheap as it looks, you are right. I went to Medibank site and compared their options for non-residents with similar their covers for residents. Then I applied the rates to "cheap" and "expensive" options in regards to how long would it take to PR to be granted, assuming that while parents are on bridging visa they would take a non-resident cover, and after they received PR it would be a resident cover on top of Medicare. It's surprising that the end totals of visa fees + health insurance between "cheap" and "expensive" options are very close to each others. The government are indeed smart haha..... Of course my calculation may be wrong, the assumptions could be flawed especially on the waiting periods, and not every migrants would need private health insurance (but I think my parents do), and now I am convinced hat actually the "cheap" visa just means "pay little to the government now, then pay regular expensive health care insurance to private sector later".

 

I would just say everyone considering this "cheap" option should research the health insurance as well, using each person's own assumptions of waiting period, finances, and migrant's health condition.

 

My sister and I definitely can't afford the expensive options like 143 or 864 if we have to save for home deposit (because my mom insisted on us having a home for her to arrive to, but she also a person who cherishes assurance and safety above everything, so the expensive options definitely are very appealing for her), so in the end it's up to our parents if they can pull a golden rabbit from a hat..

 

OK stop with our life story which I am sure not of everyone's interest, I will just wait for their decision. Meanwhile, let me say my thanks again, and in the future whatever option we will be going with, I hope I can also help others.

 

If we take the "cheap" options, I will put updates on this thread.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Candre
grammar grammar mumbles mumbles

[johnbshepherd]

I was hoping that Gill would re-appear by now because she knows much more about this subject than I do. Unfortunately I think that Karen is offering seriously bad advice to John. If Lisa's parents are here at this moment and they have the documentation to apply for an 804 visa in the morning then all is well. They arrived in Australia on a visit and are perfectly entitled to change their minds. They could apply for the 804 and would probably have a bridging visa A by the end of the week. If they don't apply now but go back to UK, sell up and come back to Oz with the intention of applying for the 804 then one of two things will happen

 

1) They tell the truth as they try to enter Australia and the immigration officer immediately sends them back to the UK.

 

2) They lie about their intentions and later on immigration finds out and deports them.Sorry if this sounds pessimistic. The 804 route is great to get your parents here but Gill has explained many times that you must play by complicated rules

 

CheersJBS

Edited April 29, 2012 by johnbshepherd

[Guest mr luvpants]

Wont be the morning now! Just read the paperwork that us needed to apply and I will have to give the Edmonton Registry office tomorrow night to get a copy of my In laws marriage certificate!

 

John

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill, remember me??????

 

Well we have been here for 15 months now and going great guns. Lisa's parents are over here at the moment and have made noises about staying and tonight they sat us down and said that they want to go for the APV. They have been looking at houses today and its great news (I read in one of your earlier posts) that they can apply for permission to buy a house.

 

I will be putting in an application next week. My only worry (and I hope that you or someone else can help me out here) is that MiL had a small cancer op in November 2007 and has had regular check ups since then and all is good but is that going to affect their application?

 

We have only been here 15 months but as I am a QLD copper and Lisa is a FT nurse I cant really see how DIAC can say we are not settled?

 

Also if the in laws would not be getting a PR visa for a few years, what would happen if the cancer came back or one of them got ill with something else? Obviously they would not pass the medical so would they be sent back to the UK? They would be over 80 by then.

 

Finally, I understand that they would get the Bridging visa A as soon as they applied but how long would this take to come through? They are talking about going back to the UK to get stuff sorted, house sold etc as they are booked to fly back in early June so would need a Bridging B visa asap. How long does that application take?

 

Many thanks Gill and nice to be incontact again. Loving your work!

 

JOHN

 

Hi John

 

Many thanks for this post and of course I remember you, hon!

 

At the risk of sounding like Cassandra, I don't think that your in-laws' current idea is sensible, to be honest. It "feels" like it would be a premature application and, personally, I think there would be too much likelihood of a visa refusal by the Parents Visa Centre. If they refuse the visa application then your family's only real option would be to appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal - which would involve cost, considerable delay and a huge amount of stress because there would be no certainty that an appeal would be successful.

 

Please read the article below by Alan Collett of Go Matilda:

 

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=441

 

As Alan has identified, the Sponsor has to do a heckuva lot more than just describing his/her job and I agree with Alan that the evidence that the Sponsor is "settled" should be provided up-front, in the hope of forestalling any argument from the PVC.

 

As I understand it, you and Lisa do not have any young children so it would be impossible to argue that care of the grandcubs would have anything to do with it. Also, in the second case cited by Alan, the elderly Parents, Mr & Mrs Badcock, had travelled to Australia by sea:

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/MRTA/2007/500.html

 

Personally, I'd have made more of that fact than Mr & Mrs Badcock's daughter did! (In 2007 & 2008, I got involved with trying to send a British couple called Ruth & Monty out to Australia by sea! It turned out to be extremely difficult to do - much harder than I had imagined.)

 

However, the evidence would be that your in-laws have no reason not to travel by air, so it would not be possible to argue extenuating cirumstances because of the nigh-on impossibility of actually getting to Australia by sea nowadays.

 

It is also difficult to argue about the need for/desirability of family unity if the facts reveal that within minutes of getting a Bridging Visa A, the APV applicants had promptly obtained a Bridging Visa B and gone trotting off out of Australia.

 

The PVC would know about the application for a BVB, whether or not that was granted, because it would be shown on the DIAC computer by the time that a CO at the PVC considered your in-laws' APV application. I think the CO would think, "Why on earth have this family jumped the gun in the way that they seem to have done?" My instinct is that it would be extremely difficult - if not impossible - to dispel/refute this "first impression" and if it led to the PVC's refusing the visa application, what grounds would one have for trying to argue the toss with the MRT next?

 

Isn't the real truth simply that your family wishes to jump the gun, regardless of DIAC's own policy preference and regardless of DIAC's undoubtedly long and very wise experience of why their policy about this is to insist that families must act slowly and cautiously? From what you have said so far, my feeling is that your family's reasoning is too simplistic and it does not persuade me, so why should it persuade the PVC?

 

It could be that you could work this up into a much more persuasive argument than you have told me about so far - but doing so would take more than a couple of days, John! If this is not to look like gun-jumping then it must not be gun-jumping, OK?!

 

I am also unhappy about the idea of applying for a BVB so soon after receiving a BVA. The BVB application would be processed by the DIAC office in Brisbane but the CO there would know why the BVA was granted, when the APV application was lodged etc. I think it would look like a couple who might want to settle in Australia for good at some future time but not just yet, apparently!

 

Also, granting a BVB is discretionary. What would your plan be if the BVB application were to be refused? Sure, you could make another application for a BVB at a later date but in the meantime, who is looking after your in-laws' home in the UK? Would the current caretaker agree to continue to look after the place indefinitely until such time as your in-laws are able to get back there themselves?

 

Also, even if it were granted the BVB would not allow rhe couple to spend more than 90 days outside Australia in each calendar year. The domestic property market in the UK at the moment can only be described as "very sluggish." So would 90 days be long enough to get the property ready for sale and then get it sold? Have your in-laws taken advice from any Estate Agents and solicitors in the locality of the property, to find out what sort of time-scale they would predict for the type of property concerned?

 

The whole thing "feels" to me like a family that is trying to do too much in too short a time, really?

 

Whaddya reckon please, John?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited April 29, 2012 by Gollywobbler
typos

[johnbshepherd]

A quick question for Gill, or anyone else who knows about these things. The number of Aged Parent 804 visas for each financial year is usually set in the budget - 500 for 2011-2012 for example. All I can find in this week's budget is that the total number of family visas has been increased to 60,185 but I don't know how that breaks down into various categories - can anyone find the breakdown? One small piece of good news for those waiting for a medical is that the "Significant Cost" element has been increased from $21,000 to $35,000. If the Medical Officer thinks that your medical condition will cost the taxpayer less than that over the next 5 years (3 years for over 75's) then you are OK

 

Regards

[freesia]

[h=3]Australian Department of Immigration and Citizenship | Facebook[/h]www.facebook.com/DepartmentofImmigrationandCitizenship

For information on specific visa applications, eligibility and subclasses, visit .... DIAC Newsroom – Media_releases – Immigration boss sleeps rough to help homeless ... would increase by 5000 places from 185 000 to 190 000 places in 2012-13. ... 6575 are for contributory parent migrants (compared to 6500 in 2011-12) ..

 

 

 

 

 

FAMILY STREAM

• The family stream has increased by 1585 places over 2011-12 (2.7 per cent) to 60 185 places.

• It is comprised of:

o 46 325 places in the partner category (compared with 45 400 in 2011-12)

o 3850 places in the child category (compared with 3450 in 2011-12)

o 1285 places in the other family category (compared with 1250 in 2011-12) and

o 8725 parent category places, of which:

▪ 6575 are for contributory parent migrants (compared to 6500 in 2011-12)

▪ 2150 are for non-contributory parent migrants (compared to 2 000 in 2011-12).

[Gollywobbler]

Australian Department of Immigration and Citizenship | Facebook

 

http://www.facebook.com/DepartmentofImmigrationandCitizenship

For information on specific visa applications, eligibility and subclasses, visit .... DIAC Newsroom – Media_releases – Immigration boss sleeps rough to help homeless ... would increase by 5000 places from 185 000 to 190 000 places in 2012-13. ... 6575 are for contributory parent migrants (compared to 6500 in 2011-12) ..

 

 

 

 

 

FAMILY STREAM

• The family stream has increased by 1585 places over 2011-12 (2.7 per cent) to 60 185 places.

• It is comprised of:

o 46 325 places in the partner category (compared with 45 400 in 2011-12)

o 3850 places in the child category (compared with 3450 in 2011-12)

o 1285 places in the other family category (compared with 1250 in 2011-12) and

o 8725 parent category places, of which:

▪ 6575 are for contributory parent migrants (compared to 6500 in 2011-12)

▪ 2150 are for non-contributory parent migrants (compared to 2 000 in 2011-12).

 

Hi Freesia

 

Welcome to this thread and very many thanks for your post.

 

As you know, this particular thread is about the *non-contributory* Parent and Aged Parent visa applicants only. Another thread, on a different forum, is devoted to the people who want CPVs or CAPVs.

 

The information that you have, very kindly, found and published shows the the total number of non-contributory Paent & Aged Parents will be increased by a total of 150 for the 2012-2013 Financial Year.

 

What we don't know, as yet, is how many of these 150 extra places will go into the "pot" for the offshore Parent 103 visa and how many will be allocated to the onshore Aged Parent 804 visa instead. Even though 150 is a TINY number compared to the size of the official Queues for both visas, I think we should all be very grateful indeed that the Parents Visa Centre have managed to do anything at all to help the situation.

 

I think that, in his post, JBS was asking me whether I know the breakdown between these two visas? As yet, I don't but I am hoping that JBS might be able to find out.

 

That said, I've been very busy with other things lately so I didn't even know that the Aussie Budget has now been released, so I also didn't know about the extra 150 places.

 

Thank you very much indeed for letting us know about this. The more information we can gather, between us, the better, I reckon.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[johnbshepherd]

Thanks to Freesia for that information. It seems that the Parent Centre has not yet decided how to divide the 150 extra places between the 103 stream and the 804 stream. At least the numbers have not gone down. I was afraid that we non-contributories would lose some places to the contributory visas.

 

Regards

 

JBS